tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post3432278606749484541..comments2024-03-05T05:38:22.024-05:00Comments on Left at the Gate: Derby By Invitation OnlyAlan Mannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-46633693698807931222008-04-17T21:54:00.000-04:002008-04-17T21:54:00.000-04:00Possible idea: take each open-company listed/grade...Possible idea: take each open-company listed/graded stakes race run at a mile or over. Apply a point system: the most points that can be earned is proportional to the number of horses in the field.<BR/><BR/>Example: the Count Fleet at the Big A has 9 horses leaving the gate. Therefore the winner is capped at 9 points, and so on down to last. Graded races, depending on the grade, earn double points. Perhaps it would not just encourage legitimate participation in the preps, but encourage more horses, preferably ones of quality, to run. Tracks could theoretically do what they can to encourage quality fields and not just able bodies to fill races. <BR/><BR/>The end result would be you count points at 3 to determine the field. Tiebreakers could then include graded earnings, weighted more towards earnings at 3 than at 2. An option would be to include only races at a mile or over for two-year-olds to count within the system, and thus limit earnings to those earned in dirt races at a mile or beyond.<BR/><BR/>It's complicated to be sure, but I'd much rather prefer a point system that allows serious Derby hopefuls to strategize more about which races they enter with the Derby as a target, than someone who wins the Sanford and/or the Delta Jackpot and being eligible for the Derby while being eased in every start over a mile.<BR/><BR/>But it doesn't need an "invitational" aspect, the Derby. The glory of the last several years is that an owner could dream of running if they had the horse. It shouldn't ever anymore be left to the "country club committee" mindset to determine who is in and who's out. This ain't Project Runway, after all, it's the Derby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-27555084137004203782008-04-16T14:42:00.000-04:002008-04-16T14:42:00.000-04:00El Gato Malo had a couple of two-turn stakes wins ...El Gato Malo had a couple of two-turn stakes wins under his belt as a 3yo, then ran a close second to Colonel John in the Sham. He even went favored in the SA Derby. The fact that he ran one bad race (ala Pyro) shouldn't be enough to exclude him from the Derby field. As for Yankee Bravo, he looked great in a couple of two-turn stakes wins, then shipped to Fair Grounds and ran a nice third (with traffic) behind Pyro. He also ran reasonably well in the SA Derby, in fact i thought he was going to win coming off the turn. Bother of these horses deserve entry, in my opinion. Certainly more so than some horses who are ranked in front of them. <BR/><BR/>A perfect example of a worthy horse being excluded by the curtrent system would've been Rock Hard Ten a few years ago. He might've been one of the top three betting choices that year, and he couldn't even make the race. To say "it was his own fault" because he missed by a head in the Santa Anita Derby (in this third career start), then got disqualified to 3rd, is simply ridiculous. That horse did everything that was asked of him, and he was clearly one of the best horses in the country at that time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-55796996014818713502008-04-16T13:51:00.000-04:002008-04-16T13:51:00.000-04:00How about something of a hybird like the Breeders ...How about something of a hybird like the Breeders Cup where the first 12 spots go to the top money earners and a panel ranks the remaining entrants?<BR/><BR/>I won't even get into the notion of reducing the field size to 14...El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-57922217990835508972008-04-16T12:51:00.000-04:002008-04-16T12:51:00.000-04:00>>Like the new look but if you could increase the ...>>Like the new look but if you could increase the column size it would be great. It feels like i am reading a newspaper on my computer.<BR/><BR/>Brett - Thanks for the feedback. We're still under construction here.Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-60797228313057409402008-04-16T12:46:00.000-04:002008-04-16T12:46:00.000-04:00Like the new look but if you could increase the co...Like the new look but if you could increase the column size it would be great. It feels like i am reading a newspaper on my computer.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07847114098891496678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-4329403105793548952008-04-16T12:31:00.000-04:002008-04-16T12:31:00.000-04:00Yankee Bravo and El Gato Malo running well in prep...Yankee Bravo and El Gato Malo running well in prep races? They were both off the board in the SA Derby. Had they run better, they wouldn't have to worry about graded earnings.<BR/><BR/>A panel voting for the derby 20? That would open a bigger can of worms than already exists. Removing the human element is the right way to go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-70548168851477161302008-04-16T12:00:00.001-04:002008-04-16T12:00:00.001-04:00by the way, that sucks about Showing Up.by the way, that sucks about Showing Up.Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-76864521893753239542008-04-16T12:00:00.000-04:002008-04-16T12:00:00.000-04:00The Illinois Derby was also won by Ten Most Wanted...The Illinois Derby was also won by Ten Most Wanted and Pollard's Vision, both of whom went on to win graded stakes...a G1 in the case of the former. So I think the graded status is OK for some time.Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-4119912632610780472008-04-16T11:44:00.000-04:002008-04-16T11:44:00.000-04:00Quote: "Or the Illinois Derby for that matter. How...Quote: "Or the Illinois Derby for that matter. How that race stays graded at all is a mystery."<BR/><BR/>It does inspite of every attempt by CDI/Arlington Park to kill that track off. <BR/><BR/>The fact that War Emblem won there and then the Kentucky Derby and Preakness victories will likley keep the IL Derby graded for sometime to come.<BR/><BR/>Least we forget that Sinister Minister won the 2006 Bluegrass Stakes. After which 'Sinister' (through 1/1/08) never won another race in his career.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-23740570441775930362008-04-16T10:29:00.000-04:002008-04-16T10:29:00.000-04:00Or the Illinois Derby for that matter. How that ra...Or the Illinois Derby for that matter. How that race stays graded at all is a mystery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-64542887212197550162008-04-16T10:28:00.000-04:002008-04-16T10:28:00.000-04:00In my opinion, a 2yo that wins the Remsen and is c...In my opinion, a 2yo that wins the Remsen and is cometitive this year deserves the spot more than a Johnny come lately like Big Brown who earns a big figure beating one suspect field.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-45811305348194736202008-04-16T10:26:00.000-04:002008-04-16T10:26:00.000-04:00The first change should be to eliminate dollars an...The first change should be to eliminate dollars and use points based on a graded system, similar to, dare i write it, the Kentucky Derby Fantasy Stable pool.<BR/><BR/>Points earned in two turn 3yo or older races would count double those earned in one turn races, 2yo, turf, filly or foreign races. The Breeders Cup Juvenile would earn full points.<BR/><BR/>Win an you're in works for the major preps, but bottom line is those horses will qualify anyway under either system.<BR/><BR/>If I have time will remake the Derby lineup, once finalized and see if my system would make much difference.<BR/><BR/>Some of these problems are really not that difficult.<BR/><BR/>Next problem?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-63813547203980069562008-04-16T10:12:00.000-04:002008-04-16T10:12:00.000-04:00>>Not to be a wiseguy, but if Big Brown wasn't eli...>>Not to be a wiseguy, but if Big Brown wasn't eligible, it would've been because he ran 3rd or worse in the Florida Derby, in which case he wouldn't have had much hype.<BR/><BR/>Understood, but not necessarily. There could have been a scenario such as DC suggested in which he got left at the gate or somehow impeded, and then staged a spectacular recovery for third. The hype factor would still be intact. Then you'd have a situation in which people would scream if the panel awarded a Derby slot to a horse with three starts and no stakes wins. But so what? Who would get excluded, Anak Nakal?Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-8352622948341808712008-04-16T10:07:00.000-04:002008-04-16T10:07:00.000-04:00Not to be a wiseguy, but if Big Brown wasn't eligi...Not to be a wiseguy, but if Big Brown wasn't eligible, it would've been because he ran 3rd or worse in the Florida Derby, in which case he wouldn't have had much hype.El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-87163870524748418532008-04-16T08:50:00.000-04:002008-04-16T08:50:00.000-04:00True about Hey Burn and the graded earnings, but t...True about Hey Burn and the graded earnings, but to be fair Tomcito should have had more from Peru count -- winning two classics in another country should count for something. <BR/><BR/>Having said that, I would like to see 3 year old graded earnings count for more than the 2 year old ones; a horse who peaked at 2 doesn't need to be bothering the Derby field at this point.Superfectahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13160193760814449962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-85461579714896985002008-04-16T08:18:00.000-04:002008-04-16T08:18:00.000-04:00ok ok, sheesh, i live in 2008 and have a big compu...ok ok, sheesh, i live in 2008 and have a big computer screen at home, didn't realize the right column thing. Should be fixed for everyone now. <BR/><BR/>Anyways, a points system I think would be best, and the <A HREF="http://handride.blogspot.com/2008/04/looking-at-this-id-say-standings-do.html" REL="nofollow">TBA's doesn't do to bad</A>Patrick J Pattenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10365169347148710377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-12809160438390328362008-04-16T08:04:00.000-04:002008-04-16T08:04:00.000-04:00I don't mind the current system, but I would count...I don't mind the current system, but I would count 3 yr. old earnings more than those at 2 (twice as much, let's say).<BR/><BR/>The thing is, if a horse doesn't have sufficient earnings, it's solely the fault of the horse and it's connections. They can roll the dice with two preps, but then they've no ground to complain if they come up short.<BR/><BR/>Hey Byrn and Tomcito wouldn't be scrambling for cash now if they'd started their graded careers earlier this year. (And for late bloomers, that's why 3yr. old winnings should count for more)<BR/><BR/>ajkreiderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-84886891141410873472008-04-16T07:36:00.000-04:002008-04-16T07:36:00.000-04:00OTOH the current system is decidedly better than t...OTOH the current system is decidedly better than the previous system which was no system at all. Any bozo with a three year old could enter and at least one did every year.ballyfagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16946523913002020541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-47253518294942043522008-04-15T23:45:00.000-04:002008-04-15T23:45:00.000-04:00What's up with the new layout? It is funky with th...What's up with the new layout? It is funky with the data bar at the left.<BR/><BR/>As for the suggestion of having the Derby by invitation only that would just smack of the good-old boys club gone bad. <BR/><BR/>This sport has a long record of slights & snubs so no need to introduce that here. Sure there are some trainers of questionable records (e.g., Patrick B) which you could envision being blocked. But hey I seriously dislike Jess Jackson (and maybe I'm not alone) so if one of his horses was blocked what then?<BR/><BR/>Nope - I'm happy with graded earnings although I'd prefer to reduce the contributing value of 2yr old earnings over 3-yr old earnings. The Delta Jackpot, for example, is a joke with the amount of graded money it nets a winner. Its a defacto auto Derby admission to the winner. Although where is Birdbirdistheword today ;><BR/><BR/>Cited before was Showing Up and when was he going to make his '08 debut. Looks like it won't happen: <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44608" REL="nofollow">4/15 Showing Up Retired</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com