tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post4958126314077754852..comments2024-03-05T05:38:22.024-05:00Comments on Left at the Gate: Paterson Blasts Bloomberg......MaybeAlan Mannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-28816126590694117112008-06-17T11:22:00.000-04:002008-06-17T11:22:00.000-04:00Late Scratch:You're right that there has to be *so...Late Scratch:<BR/><BR/>You're right that there has to be *some* takeout of substance, because the game doesn't pay for itself. But this is the conundrum racing is in, because unlike 1930, or even 1970, there are literally hundreds of other legal, quasi-legal and illegal gambling options out there for people (especially those my age), which are easier to understand and less difficult to beat in terms of the house advantage. <BR/><BR/>And I disagree that fans don't care about issues like paying for backstretch workers, maintenance, or keeping purses high---most people who go to the races are well aware of these issues and care, in my opinion. It's just hard not to feel that the bettors are subsidizing more than their fair share of this through the takeout.El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-68894199750577973572008-06-17T10:34:00.000-04:002008-06-17T10:34:00.000-04:00Your right Late Scratch,Raise the takeout to 30%,t...Your right Late Scratch,<BR/><BR/>Raise the takeout to 30%,these Suckers(Horseplayers)will pay It.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-19589873959425880842008-06-17T09:38:00.000-04:002008-06-17T09:38:00.000-04:00To anon -The only metaphor I can think of is how w...To anon -<BR/><BR/>The only metaphor I can think of is how we take for granted that every time we flip a light switch, that electricity will magically be delivered to our homes to light our way. Similarly, there is a lot of backdrop effort and expense that go into providing the race fan the opportunity to wager at their favorite venue. The horses entered to race don't just magically appear on the track for our wagering enjoyment. There is so much that goes on prior to that point that most race fans don't see, know or unfortunately, even care about.<BR/><BR/>So, once again, if you don't like the odds, maybe you should try another game. Nobody is TAKING 25% of your money unless you're addicted or they have a gun to your head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-72476585263212432552008-06-16T23:15:00.000-04:002008-06-16T23:15:00.000-04:00Late scratch said..."There's way too much greed, s...Late scratch said...<BR/><BR/>"There's way too much greed, selfishness and deception in this game for its own good."<BR/><BR/>You must be talking about the Owners, as a fan It's very hard to feel greedy and selfish when Nyra is taking up to 25% of your money.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Let me ask you this,what kind of benefit is the Horseracing fan gonna get when NY starts taking in slot money.<BR/><BR/>Lower takeout? F**k NO!,Nothing! Zero!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-15613895748408926692008-06-16T22:15:00.000-04:002008-06-16T22:15:00.000-04:00JLK said: "What will this $25 million per year use...JLK said: "What will this $25 million per year used for in the next 2 years? What is the benefit to race fans?"<BR/><BR/>This is part of the myopic thinking that has got us to where we are today. Hey, I'm a race fan, too, but I'm also an owner, and without all the systems components getting at least part of what they need, there just won't be any worthwhile racing someday. And maybe that's not a bad thing. There's way too much greed, selfishness and deception in this game for its own good. But, in the meantime, please do not equate a day at the races to playing poker. If it's minimal takeout you want, stick to the slots.<BR/><BR/>And if the present takeout is so onerous, how are the OTB's doing so much handle with the surcharge they impose?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-36045348647684420932008-06-16T21:25:00.000-04:002008-06-16T21:25:00.000-04:00Here is some simple math:In 2007 NYRA's all source...Here is some simple math:<BR/><BR/>In 2007 NYRA's all source handle was $2.545 billion. <BR/><BR/>An additional 1% takeout on this number is an additional $25 million out of the betting public's pocket.<BR/><BR/>What will this $25 million per year used for in the next 2 years?<BR/><BR/>What is the benefit to race fans?<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/44vd3lAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-45875444659490948502008-06-16T18:56:00.000-04:002008-06-16T18:56:00.000-04:00Did you notice the Union representing the workers ...Did you notice the Union representing the workers sat silent on the sideline through all this? Did they not know this was just a dog and pony show by Bloomberg and the Parlors would not really be closed down on Sunday? Lest us not forget we are talking about something that generates money (gambling) and jobs (appointed by politicians). This is about money and political patronage.SaratogaSpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05181152277681879529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-63777602065544241162008-06-16T18:40:00.000-04:002008-06-16T18:40:00.000-04:00An increase from 15% to 16% is a 7% increase.Anyon...An increase from 15% to 16% is a 7% increase.<BR/><BR/>Anyone who is happy with the takeout(latescratch)I feel for you,you'll never get it.<BR/><BR/>You get the takeout down to 8-12% and horse racing will compete with Poker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-9535341519209195712008-06-16T18:02:00.000-04:002008-06-16T18:02:00.000-04:00Late scratch: you forgot the Pick Six and Trifecta...Late scratch: you forgot the Pick Six and Trifecta, both of which go for 25% as well (except the P6 on non-carryover days). And while the one horse and two horse bets do get a lot of action, the whales and those looking for a big score all go for the bets that have a 25% takeout, which is beyond onerous. <BR/><BR/>Here's my question: everyone says lowering takeout increases the handle. That's fine, but I don't recall anyone saying that it increases handle enough to offset or mitigate the loss in revenue the track gets from the lower takeout. Is this the case? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the case at Laurel and Ellis Park the last couple of years with their experiments.El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-14250313614692045262008-06-16T17:57:00.000-04:002008-06-16T17:57:00.000-04:00My guess on the 4%/8% thing is that the commenter ...My guess on the 4%/8% thing is that the commenter meant that going from 14% to 15% isn't really a "1% increase", but actually a 7% increase, mathematically speaking.El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-87444053972758196792008-06-16T17:37:00.000-04:002008-06-16T17:37:00.000-04:00Takeout, shmakeout. NY has been offering the lowes...Takeout, shmakeout. NY has been offering the lowest takeout by far in the country on all but superfecta, pick 3 and pick 4 wagers. Most of the daily handle comes from WPS and exacta betting which are 14% and 17.5% respectively. Raising them by 1% still keeps NYRA tied for or at the lowest rate for these bets.<BR/><BR/>Plus, the research has been spotty as to whether increasing takeout actually reduces handle. Intuitively one would think so but in practice if the additional revenue is used for marketing and purse improvements resulting in better racing and larger, more competitive fields, then its impact is negated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-884595803198433162008-06-16T17:04:00.000-04:002008-06-16T17:04:00.000-04:00>>Who owns the location of the 60 OTB parlors?Er.....>>Who owns the location of the 60 OTB parlors?<BR/><BR/>Er.....NYRA? :-/<BR/><BR/>>>That 1 percent increase is actually a 4% to 8% increase to the better.<BR/><BR/>Please elaborate.Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-84347652955576610822008-06-16T16:20:00.000-04:002008-06-16T16:20:00.000-04:00Who owns the location of the 60 OTB parlors? City...Who owns the location of the 60 OTB parlors? City, State, OTB, or are they rentals?El Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14145024095815950963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-41770355293178460752008-06-16T16:06:00.000-04:002008-06-16T16:06:00.000-04:00Alan,That 1 percent increase is actually a 4% to 8...Alan,<BR/><BR/>That 1 percent increase is actually a 4% to 8% increase to the better.<BR/><BR/>Am I wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-72603794604802055992008-06-16T15:48:00.000-04:002008-06-16T15:48:00.000-04:00> I will save my rips to you for your handicapping...> I will save my rips to you for your handicapping selections! <BR/><BR/>Plenty of opportunity for that..Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-16555196047625651992008-06-16T15:39:00.000-04:002008-06-16T15:39:00.000-04:00It does not make sense to me that the takeout has ...It does not make sense to me that the takeout has to be raised. The consolodation story sounds good. Move to lower cost office space. Book all of the on-line bets thru NYRA. These two moves alone will increase cashflow to OTB and NYRA. Why then do they have to suck more blood from the race fans on top of the cost cutting? I thought research shows lower takeout leads to higher betting volume. <BR/><BR/>No one has really made the case on how raising the takeout is needed to fix OTB. It is a typical Albany move to cover their asses with the unions and political appointees. They claim the increase is only needed for 2 years. Why? What happens after 2 years to make the increase go away? It is the usual Albany fuzzy math.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you saw it but Patterson ripped Silver last week over the debate on property tax caps. The man is on a roll.<BR/><BR/>One more thing, I was not "ripping" you, I was ripping the hacks who decided to raise the takeout. I will save my rips to you for your handicapping selections!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-9583172406922923152008-06-16T15:07:00.000-04:002008-06-16T15:07:00.000-04:00jk - I know you ripped me previously for saying th...jk - I know you ripped me previously for saying this....but it still seems to me that, ultimately, a "temporary" (if it really turns out to be so) one percent increase in the takeout would be a relatively small price to pay in order to get this mess straightened out once and for all. I think we'd all benefit from an industry in the state which is united in terms of marketing and efficiencies, and which could stand on its own once the slots bubble bursts. Might be easy for me to say because, at the levels I bet, 1% ain't going to amount to much over that time. But I'd be interested in hearing why you think I'm so far off base on this.Alan Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12570505944559196118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8711985.post-72495505995083033962008-06-16T14:51:00.000-04:002008-06-16T14:51:00.000-04:00I will deny Patterson the high gound on this until...I will deny Patterson the high gound on this until I hear more about the takeout increase.<BR/><BR/>If they increase the takeout, Patterson is not doing racing fans any favors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com